30 July 2004


I laughed, I cried, I wet my pants

Go read American Digest's precious little gem. But be forewarned: set your drink down before you start reading. I might have to replace a semi-expensive monitor if the cheap rum and diet coke doesn't wipe off easily. Jim at Smoke on the Water has again brought to the surface a magnificent pearl.

29 July 2004


We've corrected the glitch with the "Comments", as of Monday.  I'm not sure if comments can be added to posts before the correction.  If not, and you want to slap us around for anything posted prior to Monday, 26 July 2004, please send your comments to me at heywoodblogger@yahoo.com.


25 July 2004

Rivrdog floats an idea that just might work, an "attention getter" for both campaigns on the Scary Looking (assault) Weapons Ban.

"To Bush, make a campaign donation of exactly Seven dollars and sixty-two cents ($7.62).....
To Kerry, make a donation of twenty-two cents....."

At least he didn't suggest $7.62 times 39 ($297.18).  That would be a little deeper than these pockets can afford to give to any candidate.....

Thanks to Jim at Smoke on the Water for the heads up

23 July 2004

Fool's Gold

Jim at Smoke on the Water has a post worth reading regarding the current state  of the democraps' party, and he again puts things in a proper historical perspective.  Jim has a gift; who else could meld Andrew Johnson, FDR, Truman, Nixon, Woodward & Bernstien, Clinton, Sandy Berger, and Geo.W.Bush into a cohesive post?

Go read, and read the comments as well.  His is a lively band, cussin' and discussin' the subject at hand

He's (almost) back / Frank J.'s funny

Bill Whittle has again surfaced to let us know he's OK and to call off the search party.  Stop teasing us, dammit.....

Frank J. of IMAO fame has a really funny "fisking"(?) of The Eagles' "Desparado" / Linda Ronstadt / michael moore that you should read.  I somewhat agree with Rachel Lucas, "Desparado" is not all that great on it's own merits:

First of all, not every American loves that song. In fact, I myself am one American who completely freaking hates that song and always has. I think it's stultifyingly boring, and frankly, silly.

But, taken in context of the entire LP, the song kicks ass.  Problem is, most people have never heard the "Doolin-Dalton Reprise" or "Out of Control" or "Twenty One".  They just sit there listening to their "Eagles Greatest Hits" LP thinking they know all about The Eagles.  But I digress......

22 July 2004

Flight 327 and other moore-ons

Rachel Lucas offers some excellent commentary on Flight 327.  Go read all her posts in the "Gimme Valium" series right now. 

This whole "Flight 327" thing should drive us all into some serious introspection:  what would you have done if you were in Annie Jacobsen's seat?  And if there were Air Marshalls on the flight, WTF were they doing?  The in-flight magazine is not that interesting.  I'm actually waiting for the left to bring Flight 327 up as an example of GWB's failure to do something about terrorism at home, being an election year and all.

Go read Rachel's posts, follow the links and sit down and do some serious soul searching.

She also gets a couple of good whacks in along the way on the subject of michael moore and the hollywood left and their mis-understanding of exactly what "freedom of speech" means. 

Flight 327 (an explanation)

[Originally published at congruence.blogspot.com]

Via Lileks, I stumbled upon this post on the Flight 327 fiasco. NRO isn't in the habit of publishing crap, and the author makes some very salient points; I'm willing to let the particulars of the incident go quietly into the night. Go read, I'll wait.

However, the fact that these were merely Syrian musicians only came to the surface after half of the blogosphere went semi-ballistic on the issue. What about while the plane was aloft? Did the Air marshals know that the "band" was aboard? Wouldn't it have then be prudent to notify at least the flight crew and in turn the concerned passengers? What harm would have come from confronting the Syrians in the air once their collective behavior was causing concern? If they turned out to be just musicians traveling to a gig, no problem.

Air Marshall: Hey, you Arab-looking dudes! WTF are you doing?
Syrian Band: It's cool, we're in the band.
Air Marshall: Alright, then. Just sit down and stop acting so weird. You're making people nervous.

No blood, no foul. At the most, the Air Marshall service would have to issue an Official Apology to Syrian Band Members everywhere for their coarse and insensitive actions.

What if they actually were terrorist bent on destruction?

Air Marshall: Hey, you Arab-looking dudes! WTF are you doing?
1st Syrian Terrorist: Allah Akbar! Die, you infidel pig-dogs
Air Marshall: sfx: Bang! Bang! ('cause anyone worth shootin' is worth shootin' twice)
2nd Syrian Terrorist: I'm not with him, I'm a musician en route to a gig at a casino
Air Marshall: Then sit down, Achmed. We'll talk to you later
Relieved Passengers: I knew something was fishy, I mean who eats their Happy Meal in the bathroom?

Some blood, but again no foul. Yeah, it's a harsh view; bite me. We don't negotiate with terrorists, remember? No jet airliner impaled into a tall American building; no American kids having to come to grips with why Mommie didn't come home from her business trip; no American family not quite making it to DisneyWorld; no National Day of Mourning; no foul, in my book. None of us died. Because that's how they have framed the argument: us and them. No in-between, no sense even talking about it; us and them. Period.

Fine. If that's how they want it, fine. We'd rather not, but we can play it that way. And we don't lose these kinds of fights.

21 July 2004

The latest from Delusion Central

It's crap like this that really frosts my cookies.  Front page of yesterday's Moscow on the Huron edition of Pravda, above the fold, in a large font is this:  Talk of military draft persists despite denials; Some fear mandatory service is on the horizon.  Of course, for the aging hippies at the AnnArbor News, it's always 1968. 

Rumors about a possible draft have been circulating for months, fueled in part by Web sites such as StopTheDraft.com, which claims the draft is just "five minutes" away.

Fueled entirely by the left.  There's no substance here, just wild-eyed speculation in smoke filled rooms after the bong has been refilled with the last of the "good stuff"

Lawmakers say it is unlikely Congress would call for compulsory service in an election year, and that the Bush administration has taken steps in the short term to shore up gaps in troop strength.

"I don't think we're going to need to reinstate the draft," said U.S. Sen. Carl Levin, Michigan's senior senator and the top Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee. "The combination of recruitment and retention is doing fairly well. Some of the measures that have been taken will give us temporary respite from the draft possibility."

I don't often find myself in even partial agreement with carl levin, but he seems to be on the level here.  He does, however, leave the hanging doubt with the "temporary respite" comment.
How temporary is a question that keeps coming up on Capitol Hill.

A series of recent moves by the Pentagon - talk of shifting forces out of Germany and South Korea into Iraq and Afghanistan and a plan to recall 5,600 U.S. soldiers whose tours of duty recently ended - have left many wondering if a more permanent solution is needed.

It only makes good sense to 1.) move troops out of germany, where there hasn't been any issues since the Cold War ended (again, Thank You, President Ronald Reagan) and BTW europe should take care of their own defense; and 2.) move troops out of the Korean pennisula, 'cause we're probably going to have to nuke that poofty-haired N.Korean bastard eventually and we should have our people well outside the "minimum safe distance" when the balloon goes up.  Relax; the ChiComs, Taiwan, Japan, Asia et al. will stand up and applaud when we do it.  Only france (who?) will be indignant about it, like we give a syphilic rat's ass about what they think.

Democratic U.S. Reps. Charles Rangel of New York and John Conyers of Michigan think they have the solution: Mandatory service, which they consider a mainstay of good citizenship.

Yes, I'm sure they were just thinking about good citizenship when they drafted this POS.

The Rangel-Conyers bill would require everyone between the ages of 18 and 26 to serve in the military or in an alternate civilian national service, such as AmeriCorps, for two years. A version of the bill has been introduced in both the House and Senate. It is pending in committee.

Let me see if I've got this straight: two liberal democraps float a bill calling for mandatory service (in an election year) and all of a sudden it's The Administration who's coming for the sons and daughters to shed their "blood for oil" on the altar of Halliburton?  Here's how it plays with the MTV generation:

MTV Generation Guy 1:   "Dude, they're bringing back the draft, dude"
MTV Generation Guy 2:   "Dude, no way"
MTV Generation Guy 1:   "Dude, it's true.  There's a bill in Congress right now to bring back the draft"
MTV Generation Guy 2:   "Dude, that's harsh.  We gotta vote for that guy who's not Bush"

"With the over 30 million youngsters that would be eligible ... only 1 million of them could possibly be selected for the military," Rangel said. "But how proud all of them should be during the time of national emergency that they will be able to serve our great country."

Under the bill, the White House would determine how to select draftees, but there would be no deferments for those in college or with families. The only deferments would be awarded due to disability or for those completing a high school education.

Oh, yes, the (evil) "White House would determine".....further proof that they should vote for that guy who's not Bush.  Good to see that they've taken out the student deferment, so that the children of the "rich" are at risk, too.

While raising the specter of a draft is good politics for Democrats because it embarrasses Bush, Republicans say trading a voluntary system for conscription will do more harm than good.

"An all-volunteer Army has been successful and has met our military and defense needs," said U.S. Rep. Dave Camp, R-Midland, MI. "What we have now is a rotation issue mostly. I think the interest in military service is pretty intense. We don't need a draft."

Go spend an afternoon reading milblogs; the folks in the foxholes don't want a conscript covering their six. 

The idea behind the Rangel-Conyers bill has gotten some traction in Washington, especially among African-American members of Congress who feel that the weight of military service falls disproportionately on minority communities.

Blacks make up 28.9 percent of the Army's ranks, while they represent 12.7 percent of the U.S. population, according to Army data. There are fewer Hispanics in the Army (9.7 percent) than in the general population (13.4 percent).

The Bush administration recognizes that there is a disparity, but argues that the Army doesn't control who volunteers for service. And White House officials aren't interested in the mandatory service bill. 

Of course, the "journalist" doesn't take the next logical step of looking into just how many of these minorities go on to higher education as a part of their benefits of having served, no it's just another example of how the Man is keeping the People down.  Dude, just look at the disparity in the numbers.

"The administration does not support resumption of the draft," David Chu, undersecretary of the U.S. Department of Defense for personnel and readiness, told a House committee on July 7. "There is no secret plan on this front."

There.  Enough.Said. 

The United States has nearly 700,000 service members on active duty, and about 138,000 of them are in Iraq. Of those in Iraq, about 40 percent are reservists or members of state National Guard units.

Recently Congress appropriated an additional $28 million for the Selective Service System. Currently the system is used to register 18-year-olds in cases of emergency, but some fear the new money may be used to start up draft boards, local panels that decide who gets drafted.

Why do I keep seeing images of Dean Wormer shaking his fist and saying "I've notified your local Draft Boards"?

Republicans in Congress say the voluntary system in place since the last draft was halted in July 1973 at the end of the Vietnam War is working well.

"It's not necessary to go to a draft," said U.S. Rep. Candice Miller, R-Harrison Township, MI, who sits on the House Armed Services Committee. "I do think an all-volunteer Army is better. Our recruitment numbers are surpassing our goals."

Republicans concede that there is a shortage of trained soldiers available for active duty, and that's why temporary measures such as delaying retirements have been adopted. Also, Congress recently gave the Pentagon the go-ahead to bring its overall force up by another 30,000 troops.

While these short-term measures are expected to work, the military has argued that the draft itself is not a legitimate solution because it would require so much money and time to train soldiers. There are not nearly enough bases, training facilities, officers and equipment to accommodate a wave of draftees.

In the first nine months of the 2004 fiscal year, which began Oct. 1, the U.S. Army recruited 56,165 soldiers - 873 enlistments above the goal. The Army Reserve recruited 15,388 soldiers, exceeding its goal by 313 soldiers.

"The U.S. Army Recruiting Command has achieved active and Reserve mission success for four continuous years," said S. Douglas Smith, a spokesman for the command. "That success continues in fiscal year 2004."

So far in fiscal 2004, the Army has written 1,656 active Army enlistment contracts in Michigan and another 405 Army Reserve contracts compared with 2,687 active Army contracts and 607 Army Reserve contracts in fiscal 2003. Smith couldn't say why the pace of recruitment has slowed in Michigan.

Democrats say the recruitment numbers look good, but they wonder whether they're strong enough to counter the impression that the military needs more bodies.

Oh, so very subtle.  "Bodies" as in what one would put in a "body bag".

"Our military is stretched to the hilt," said U.S. Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Michigan. "We are putting very unfair burdens on the (National) Guard and Reserves and their families.

Damn, I've had to agree with carl levin and now lil'debbie stabenow in the same post.  Those who personally bear the burden should not have to suffer for defending us all.  Why don't you vote to raise their pay and expand their benefits, lil'debbie?

"Given the president's approach to foreign policy and the possible desire to look at other military actions, this could be a discussion next year," she said.

Given our President's approach to foreign policy, I sleep a lot better at night.  And oh, yes, there are other "military actions" in the works, and as an ultimate result our children and their children will sleep more soundly as well.

19 July 2004

Go buy some Slim Fast right now

I'm sure you've seen and heard Whoopi Goldberg bitching and moaning about how her Right of Expression is being trampled because Slim Fast dumped her as their spokesman-ette because of her recent vulgar remarks about the President.
This you must read.  Raging_Dave over at Four Right Wing Wackos is spot on and slaps Whoopsie and Natalie, et al. roughly about the face and neck over their cries of "censorship".  And he does so based on The Constitution, with just the right amount of piss and vinegar.  Hey, anyone who can accurately quote The Constitution is OK in my book.
Gracious thanks to Jim at Smoke on The Water for the illumination.

18 July 2004

Bumper Stickers, Part the Second

Since we're on the subject of bumper stickers, allow me to comment on a couple I've seen lately.

The first was on an old Ford Ranger pick-up; it was styled after the current GWB-04 campaign stickers, except it read "Re-Defeat Bush in 04". Clever. OK, so they're still spewing the "stolen election" / "selected, not elected" bullshit. Do the math, moron. They didn't defeat GWB, he won. Period. Of the 43 lawsuits filed regarding the 2000 election results in Florida, 41 were filed by algore's team after every recount came up with the same result. Bush won. So take your ratty-assed pick-up with expired plates and the pizza delivery sign suction-cupped to the roof back to Delusion Central and stay out of my way.

The other was on the bumper on both of the cars owned by people whom I love and respect. They take hard earned and well deserved great pride in their cars and do not place "graffiti" on their vehicles. On each bumper rests a small (4" square), tastefully executed decal stating "Outsource Bush". I honestly didn't "get it", so I asked what it meant, beyond the obvious vitriol. I was harangued for about 45 minutes about how GWB has personally outsourced all the decent jobs in this country.

Hmmm. I pay pretty close attention to the news, but I don't recall the President signing any Legislation entitled "The Great Authorization for US Companies to be Required to send their Work Over-Seas and Divert the Profits to Halliburton Act" of 2003 or what-ever. I mean, I'm not being purposefully obtuse here; if you can point out the specific things the current administration has done or allowed to happen that resulted in this whole big "outsourcing" issue, I am more than willing to listen. I may even take up the cause, if the evidence is compelling enough.

But again, I pay pretty close attention to the news. I see all the economic indicators pointing in good directions. I see Crazy Al over at the Fed raising the prime rate because of inflation concerns, it seems that the economy is growing too fast. I see the left backing away from the "3 million jobs lost" line of crap as it evaporates in the harsh light of reality's noon-day sun. At last count, we had re-couped 2.7 million of the 3 million jobs lost after 11 September 2001. (Note to the left: Does that date mean anything to you? Those of us who do not suffer from a cranial / rectal inversion realize that we had a rough 4th quarter in 2001; through now fault of our own.)

I'll post more "bumper sticker" musings as they come to me. If you've seen any good bumper stickers (for either side of the debate), please drop me a line at heywoodblogger at yahoo dot com.

Bumper Stickers: A (small) sign of hope

So anyway,  The Missus and the kids and I were out and about the other evening, and she wanted to swing by the bookstore to pick up a book she wanted.  I dropped her at the door of B.Noble-WaldenBarnes and went cruising the parking lot for a parking spot.  Now, this particular bookstore is in AnnArbor (aka Moscow on the Huron) and shares a parking lot with Whole Foods, a hippy grocer of the first order.  Being semi-observant, I started to take note of the bumper stickers on the cars parked in the lot.  Discounting the "local" and "music" themed bumper stickers and focusing only on the political, there was a lot of what you'd expect for Moscow on the Huron: NARAL, NORML, GreenPeace, World Wildlife Fund, "No Blank Check For Endless War", "Not In My Name", Sierra Club, etc.  I saw two cars with Howard "Screamer" Dean stickers, two with "GWB-04" type stickers, five with anti-GWB slogans, but only one car out of several hundred (500? more?) that had a john kerry bumper sticker.
Only one. 
Only one kerry sticker, on the quintessential AnnArbor 12 year old Volvo.  Two GWB bumper stickers (both on late model SUVs, I'm happy to report).  In AnnArbor.  I have to tell you, I was quite relieved.  I mean, there I was, in the heart of liberal-ville, where sloganism via bumper sticker is required.  Relieved, indeed.
For the past several weeks I have been knocking about the notion that GWB might actually lose in November.  (Read it correctly, not that "kerry would win", because he can't win without GWB managing to lose the election).  Polls, schmolls.  I've long held the theory that in politics hatred is un-sustainable, eventually you have to come to the marketplace with ideas and vision.  Your platform can't be simply "I'm not Him".  And that's exactly what the left has been running on.  Jebeezus, I can tell you more about algore's platform and positions on the issues than I know about FATAC's.  The only time that pure hatred of a candidate or a Party has worked (for either side) was in 1976; when Gerald Ford died for Nixon's sins.
What's my point, you may ask?  Call me crazy, but I'm interpreting this as good news, from a "boots in the dirt" perspective.  Say what you will about AnnArbor liberals (don't get me started), but they're not complete idiots.  The fact that there aren't more kerry / edwards bumper stickers out there, in what is arguably one of, if not the most liberal of cities in this country, speaks volumes about the left's resolve and search for substance.  Now if I could only find the link for the "Ralph Nader for President in 04" campaign, maybe we could swing this.....

A Word of Introduction

It strikes me that we have never layed out who we are and what this blog is all about. OK, you can guess that we are Right Wing types, but that would be judging the book by it's cover.

My brother-in-blog and I discussed putting forth a "position paper" at the onset of this blog, but as we are both fookin' busy we haven't gotten around to it yet. Suffice it to say that while we agree on most issues, we will probably find areas where we don't see eye to eye. We both have our "hot buttons", issues about which we are (individually) passionate.

I describe my self as a "Constitutional Conservative" and often joke that I'm so far to the Right that I scare most Republicans. I'm the guy who carries a copy of The Constitution with me Every.Where.I.Go. Why, you ask? I do so because The Constitution is the second most mis-quoted document in the history of mankind (the bible / torah / koran / et al. is the first most mis-quoted document).  It gives me great pleasure to produce a copy of The Constitution for some whinny liberal hippie type and say "Really? Here. Show me where it says that."

Whilst this is a collaborative blog, we do not collaborate on our posts.  He posts, I post; but never "We" post. I'm sure we'll let you know if we ever do co-author anything.  Hell, he won't even return my phone calls....."Heywood who?" indeed.

That said, if he posts something that you don't like, take it up with him. If I post something that pisses you off (and chances are good that I will do so), take it up with him. No, wait.....I meant take it up with me. While we operate as separate entities, we each take full responsibility for the content of this blog.  In the event that there is something Greg posts that I disagree with, I will offer my rebuttal, all the while vigorously defending his right of expression.  We're both so Constitutional about these things.  Something about ".....our Lives, our Fortunes, our Sacred Honor....." or some-such (Yes, I know, I'm mixing Constitutional and Declaration of Independence metaphors; bite me)

And yes, I use a "screen name". Listen, the Federal Witness Protection Program has gone through a lot of effort and expense to date; I'm not about to go and blow my cover now.  The name harkens back to the day in the mid-1990's when I was a (very minor) Big Player in the IRC world; it's been my nom de plome (gawd how I hate using french phrases) forever and I'll continue to use it in this idiom.
We are working on fixing the glitch with the Comments, if you feel the need to slap me around in the interim e-mail me at heywoodblogger@yahoo.com.

A Happy Update

Rachel Lucas is back!
She's still working out the bugs with her new blog and trying to figure out how to balance her most excellent blogging with Real Life.
Best of luck, Rachel.  Get it straightened out and keep up the good work.

17 July 2004

Hey, we're new at this whole "blogging" thingy

Our most sincere apologies; we just discovered that registration was required to post comments. We have apparently over-looked something in setting up our blog.

We're working on it. We are new to actively running a blog and managing the details. It was never our intention to exclude anonymous commentary.

If anyone knows of a quick fix, please e-mail me at heywoodblogger at yahoo dot com. Again, our apologies to anyone who was disenfranchised by our inadvertent omission.

12 July 2004


I just noticed that BlogSpot's spellchecker returns "Bolshevik" as a match for "billyjeff" and "culture" as a match for "Coulter".


I'm just being semi-observant, that's all. Talk amongst yourselves and draw you own conclusions.

My Bad

So anyway I found myself in a bookstore in the mall this afternoon. Man, did that put me in a funk. They had a display of Reagan "memorabilia" books on an end cap and, being in AnnArbor (aka "Moscow on the Huron") every other shelf on the end cap had al franken's book of psychotic ramblings, interspersed with the Reagan books.

Keep in mind that I had to walk past roughly two pallets of billyjeff's thousand page "Love ME" yawn-fest and a life sized cardboard cut out of michael moore (how many trees had to die for that?) just to get into the store.

So I end up in the "Political Commentary" section of the store (go figure) and I'm already pissed off, and there is a shelf of billyjeff's book and a shelf of hitlery's book. Retching, I staggered away, bumbling into the next aisle. Down on the bottom shelf, certainly not "Alphabetical By Author", I find it. I grab the only three copies on the shelf and go back around the corner where I interspersed the clinton's books with Ann Coulter's "Treason".

The Missus is still asking me just what the hell was so funny in the mall.....

Maybe we should start a Movement. Sure it's not quite like Hoffman's "Steal This Book" or Arlo Guthrie's "Alice's restaurant" movement, but it sure would be fun. The next time you are anywhere books are sold, do a little stock shuffling. "Treason" juxtaposed with billyjeff's or hitlery's books makes a nice statement.

11 July 2004

Good Point

Likeks' Friday "Bleat" is good reading. "Most Americans would look at satellite photos of demolished nuke-bomb factories and think: good thing. We’ll see. When it comes to Iran, I fear that either the bombs get bombed or the bombs get used."

Go ye therefore....

This you have to read

Jim over at Smoke on the Water has a chilling history lesson for us all. It's the kind of thing that's been fermenting in the back of my brain for a while now; just how far will the left go to make their futile point?

Several months ago, there was some noise from the left, namely the DemocraticUnderground about bringing on insurrection (and civil war) upon GWB's re-election. Lefties talking about buying guns and taking it to the streets. Of course, this is the same crowd who promised to leave the country and move to france if GWB was elected (BTW they haven't accounted for their unconstitutional "waiting periods") but I digress.

Jim puts it all in the historical perspective of the elections on 1968.

Perhaps I'm melding two seperate constructs here, but something tells me there's a "chill wind" blowing from somewhere left of center.....

Quid Pro Quo

Frank J. celebrated IMAO's two year blogoversiary on Friday and issued a shameless plea for linkage to celebrate the date. Congradulations, Frank; keep up the good work.

I've been reading IMAO for about as long as I've been reading blogs and if you are not going there daily you are missing out on some more gooder funny.

As a primer, you should start with Frank's classic, timeless essay "Nuke The Moon". It's so crazy, it just might work.

BTW Frank, two things: first, we celebrated a blogoversiary on Friday as well. Friday, 9 July 2004 was SupplySidePolitics' two week anniversairy. You don't linka to us, we don't linka to you.... and second, your new site design forms a seal and applies vacuum. It's too harsh, dude. Go back to the proven concept that we know and love.

Go read Frank's stuff right now

10 July 2004

A Sad Day, Indeed

One of the VRWC's most eloquent voices has gone silent. Rachel Lucas has finally called it quits for good. Hopefully, her archives will remain available.

Best of luck to you, Rachel; and thank you for all you've done

07 July 2004

Dammit! I was going to fisk that

Cassandra over at I love Jet Noise does an admirable job of fisking michael moore's op-ed (no, not the box-office op-ed) in the L.A.Times. Dammit! I was going to put that one up on a tee and take a whack at it. I still may just do so.

Cassandra's fisking should be put up as an example of how to do it in the VRWC "style book"; she gives moore a good whacking without ever using words such as "corpulent", "flatulent", "obese", "fcuk-tard", or "siht-for-brains" when speaking of moore. Nay, not a single "ass-hat" was uttered in her most excellent post. Bravo, Cassandra on a job well done.

I may or may not have more to say on the subject of michael moore in the near future. He has been pissing me off, I mean like RCOB pissed off, since about 1986.....there's a really long blog post worth of material here, but we don't have Bill Whittle's bandwidth